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Dissolution Speech 克里希那穆提解散世界明星社的讲话

本帖最后由 Sue 于 2011-3-4 13:34 编辑

The Order of the Star in the East was founded in 1911 to proclaim the coming of the World Teacher. Krishnamurti was made Head of the Order. On August 3, 1929, the opening day of the annual Star Camp at Ommen, Holland, Krishnamurti dissolved the Order before 3000 members. Below is the full text of the talk he gave on that occasion.
东方世界明星社成立于1911年,以宣布世界导师的到来。克里希那穆提成为了明星社的首脑。192983,明星社在荷兰欧门举行每年一度的露营聚会,就在聚会开幕的当天,克里希那穆提在3000名会员面前解散了明星社。下面是他当时所作讲话的全文。

“We are going to discuss this morning the dissolution of the Order of the Star. Many people will be delighted, and others will be rather sad. It is a question neither for rejoicing nor for sadness, because it is inevitable, as I am going to explain. “You may remember the story of how the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil, “What did that man pick up?” “He picked up a piece of Truth,” said the devil. “That is a very bad business for you, then,” said his friend. “Oh, not at all,” the devil replied, “I am going to let him organize it."
今天早上我们要讨论世界明星社的解散。有很多人会很高兴,另一些人则会非常悲伤。但是这个问题既不必高兴也不必悲伤,因为这是无可避免的,原因我马上就会解释。你们或许还记得一个故事,那就是:有一天魔鬼和他的一个朋友走在街上,看到他们前面有个人弯腰从地上捡起一样东西,看了看,然后放进口袋里。朋友问魔鬼说:“他捡的是什么?”魔鬼说:“他捡了一条真理。”朋友说:“那对你来说可是件非常糟糕的事情。”魔鬼回答说:“噢,完全不是。我要让他去组织真理。”

I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or to coerce people along any particular path. If you first understand that, then you will see how impossible it is to organize a belief. A belief is purely an individual matter, and you cannot and must not organize it. If you do, it becomes dead, crystallized; it becomes a creed, a sect, a religion, to be imposed on others. This is what everyone throughout the world is attempting to do. Truth is narrowed down and made a plaything for those who are weak, for those who are only momentarily discontented. Truth cannot be brought down, rather the individual must make the effort to ascend to it. You cannot bring the mountain-top to the valley. If you would attain to the mountain-top you must pass through the valley, climb the steeps, unafraid of the dangerous precipices.
我认为真理是无路之国,无论通过任何道路,借助任何宗教、任何派别,你都不可能接近真理。这是我的观点,我绝对无条件地坚持。真理是无限的、无条件的,通过任何一条道路都无法趋近,它不能被组织;我们也不应该建立任何组织,来带领或强迫人们走哪一条特定的道路。如果你首先理解了这一点,你就知道组织信仰是多么不可能。信仰纯粹是个人的事情,你无法组织,也不可以组织信仰。否则它就是死的,就僵化了;就变成了教条、派系和宗教,然后再强加给别人。全世界每一个人都想这样做。那些懦弱的人,只是一时不满的人,把真理变得狭隘,变成了一个玩物。真理是无法拿下来的,而是个人必须努力攀登才可能企及。你无法把山顶搬下山谷。若要到达山顶,你必须穿越山谷,爬上陡坡,毫不畏惧危险的悬崖。

So that is the first reason, from my point of view, why the Order of the Star should be dissolved. In spite of this, you will probably form other Orders, you will continue to belong to other organizations searching for Truth. I do not want to belong to any organization of a spiritual kind, please understand this. I would make use of an organization which would take me to London, for example; this is quite a different kind of organization, merely mechanical, like the post or the telegraph. I would use a motor car or a steamship to travel, these are only physical mechanisms which have nothing whatever to do with spirituality. Again, I maintain that no organization can lead man to spirituality.
因此,在我看来,这是明星社应当解散的第一个原因。尽管如此,你们或许还会成立其他的社团,继续隶属于追求真理的其他组织。我不想隶属于任何精神方面的组织,请各位务必了解这一点。我愿意使用某些组织,譬如说,能够让我到达伦敦的组织;这是一种类型完全不同的组织,是纯机械的,就像邮政或者电报那样。我愿意使用汽车或者轮船旅行,这些只是物理机械,和灵性完全没有关系。我重申,没有哪个组织能够带领人们走向灵性。

If an organization be created for this purpose, it becomes a crutch, a weakness, a bondage, and must cripple the individual, and prevent him from growing, from establishing his uniqueness, which lies in the discovery for himself of that absolute, unconditioned Truth. So that is another reason why I have decided, as I happen to be the Head of the Order, to dissolve it. No one has persuaded me to this decision. “This is no magnificent deed, because I do not want followers, and I mean this. The moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth. I am not concerned whether you pay attention to what I say or not. I want to do a certain thing in the world and I am going to do it with unwavering concentration. I am concerning myself with only one essential thing: to set man free. I desire to free him from all cages, from all fears, and not to found religions, new sects, nor to establish new theories and new philosophies. Then you will naturally ask me why I go the world over, continually speaking. I will tell you for what reason I do this: not because I desire a following, not because I desire a special group of special disciples. (How men love to be different from their fellow-men, however ridiculous, absurd and trivial their distinctions may be! I do not want to encourage that absurdity.) I have no disciples, no apostles, either on earth or in the realm of spirituality. “Nor is it the lure of money, nor the desire to live a comfortable life, which attracts me. If I wanted to lead a comfortable life I would not come to a Camp or live in a damp country! I am speaking frankly because I want this settled once and for all. I do not want these childish discussions year after year.
一个组织若是为了这个目的而成立,就会变成拐杖、软弱和束缚,必然致使个人残废,妨碍他的成长,妨碍他创造自己的独特之处,而人的独特之处,正在于自己去发现那绝对的、无限的真理。这是我——正好身为明星社的首脑——之所以决定解散明星社的第二个原因。没人说服我做出这个决定。这不是什么了不起的作为,因为我不想要追随者,我是认真的。一旦你追随某个人,你就不再跟随真理了。你们是否注意我的话,我并不关心。我要在这个世界上做一件事,而且我要毫不动摇、全力以赴地去做。我只关心一件根本的事情:让人们自由。我想使人挣脱一切牢笼、一切恐惧,不再创立宗教、新的派别,也不再创立新理论、新哲学。那么你们自然就会问,我为什么还要走遍世界,继续讲话呢?我来告诉你们我为什么这么做:不是因为我想要有追随者,不是因为我想要拥有特定的一群门徒。(人们总是爱与众不同,无论他们的不同之处是多么的荒唐、可笑和微不足道!我不想鼓励这种荒唐。)我没有弟子,没有使徒,不管在俗世,还是在精神领域都没有。吸引我的,既不是金钱的诱惑,也不是想过舒适的生活。如果我想过舒服的生活,我就不会到营地来,就不会住在这个潮湿的国家!我讲得很直率,因为我想一举解决这件事情。我不想年复一年地讨论这种幼稚的事情。

One newspaper reporter, who interviewed me, considered it a magnificent act to dissolve an organization in which there were thousands and thousands of members. To him it was a great act because, he said: “What will you do afterwards, how will you live? You will have no following, people will no longer listen to you.” If there are only five people who will listen, who will live, who have their faces turned towards eternity, it will be sufficient. Of what use is it to have thousands who do not understand, who are fully embalmed in prejudice, who do not want the new, but would rather translate the new to suit their own sterile, stagnant selves? If I speak strongly, please do not misunderstand me, it is not through lack of compassion. If you go to a surgeon for an operation, is it not kindness on his part to operate even if he cause you pain? So, in like manner, if I speak straightly, it is not through lack of real affection–on the contrary.
一位访问过我的新闻记者,认为我把一个有着几千名会员的组织解散是一项壮举。对他而言,这是一项壮举,因为他说:“你以后要做什么?要怎么谋生?你将不再有追随者,人们不会再听你讲话了。”即使只有五个人愿意听、愿意活,能够面向永恒,那就够了。拥有几千个追随者,可是他们却没有领悟,心里充满成见,不想要崭新的东西,而是把崭新的东西扭曲得适合他们那贫瘠的、停滞的自我,那要这几千名追随者又有何用?如果我言辞激越,请各位不要误解,这不是因为没有慈悲心。如果你到外科医生那里动手术,即使他让你很痛,他为你动手术难道不是仁慈吗?同理,如果我直言不讳,那并不是因为我没有真正的爱——恰恰相反。

As I have said, I have only one purpose: to make man free, to urge him towards freedom, to help him to break away from all limitations, for that alone will give him eternal happiness, will give him the unconditioned realization of the self.
我说过,我只有一个目的,那就是使人自由,促使他走向自由,帮助他打破所有局限,因为这本身就能给他永恒的幸福,使他毫无局限地领悟自我。

Because I am free, unconditioned, whole–not the part, not the relative, but the whole Truth that is eternal–I desire those, who seek to understand me to be free; not to follow me, not to make out of me a cage which will become a religion, a sect. Rather should they be free from all fears–from the fear of religion, from the fear of salvation, from the fear of spirituality, from the fear of love, from the fear of death, from the fear of life itself. As an artist paints a picture because he takes delight in that painting, because it is his self-expression, his glory, his well-being, so I do this and not because I want anything from anyone. “You are accustomed to authority, or to the atmosphere of authority, which you think will lead you to spirituality. You think and hope that another can, by his extraordinary powers--a miracle–transport you to this realm of eternal freedom which is Happiness. Your whole outlook on life is based on that authority.
因为我是自由的、无局限的、完整的——不是部分,不是相对,而是永恒的完整的真理——我希望那些想要了解我的人能够自由;不要追随我,不要把我变成宗教、派别这样的牢笼。而是他们应该摆脱一切恐惧,免于宗教的恐惧,免于救赎的恐惧,免于灵性的恐惧,免于爱的恐惧,免于对死亡的恐惧,免于对生命本身的恐惧。就像艺术家画画是因为他画画很快乐,因为那是他的自我表达、他的荣耀、他的幸福,同样我这么做也是因为如此,而不是因为我想从什么人身上得到什么东西。你们已经习惯了权威,习惯了权威的氛围,认为权威会带领你们获得灵性。你们认为,也希望有一个人,以他非凡的力量——一种奇迹——把你送到这个永远自由的境地,至福的境地。你们对生命的整个视野都基于那个权威。

You have listened to me for three years now, without any change taking place except in the few. Now analyze what I am saying, be critical, so that you may understand thoroughly, fundamentally. When you look for an authority to lead you to spirituality, you are bound automatically to build an organization around that authority. By the very creation of that organization, which, you think, will help this authority to lead you to spirituality, you are held in a cage.
你们听我讲话到现在已经三年了,却没有任何改变,除了少数几个人之外。现在来分析一下我的话,批判地分析,这样你们才能从根本上彻底地了解。只要你想仰仗权威带领你达到灵性,你必定会围绕那个权威建立组织。你们认为这个权威会带领你们达到灵性,但正是因为建立了那个组织,你们被关进了牢笼。

If I talk frankly, please remember that I do so, not out of harshness, not out of cruelty, not out of the enthusiasm of my purpose, but because I want you to understand what I am saying. That is the reason why you are here, and it would be a waste of time if I did not explain clearly, decisively, my point of view. “For eighteen years you have been preparing for this event, for the Coming of the World Teacher. For eighteen years you have organized, you have looked for someone who would give a new delight to your hearts and minds, who would transform your whole life, who would give you a new understanding; for someone who would raise you to a new plane of life, who would give you a new encouragement, who would set you free–and now look what is happening! Consider, reason with yourselves, and discover in what way that belief has made you different–not with the superficial difference of the wearing of a badge, which is trivial, absurd. In what manner has such a belief swept away all the unessential things of life? That is the only way to judge: in what way are you freer, greater, more dangerous to every Society which is based on the false and the unessential? In what way have the members of this organization of the Star become different? “As I said, you have been preparing for eighteen years for me. I do not care if you believe that I am the World–Teacher or not. That is of very little importance. Since you belong to the organization of the Order of the Star, you have given your sympathy, your energy, acknowledging that Krishnamurti is the World–Teacher– partially or wholly: wholly for those who are really seeking, only partially for those who are satisfied with their own half-truths.
如果我坦率直言,请记得,我这样做不是出于刻薄,不是出于残忍,不是出于对目的的热衷,而是因为我希望你们理解我说的话。那正是你们来到这里的原因,如果我不清楚地、果断地说明我的观点,那就是在浪费时间。十八年来你们一直在为这件事作准备,为了“世界导师”的降临。十八年来你们组织起来,一直在寻找一个人,他能给你们的心灵和头脑带来新的快乐,能转变你的整个生命,带给你们全新的领悟,把你们的生命提升到一个新境界,给你们勇气,使你们自由——可是看看现在发生了什么!自己去思考、去理解,并发现这个信仰让你有什么不同——不是佩带了徽章这种肤浅的不同,这种不同是琐碎的、荒唐的。这种信仰怎样扫除了生命中所有不重要的东西?这是唯一的判断标准:你们在哪些方面变得更自由、更伟大,对每一个建立在谬误与无关紧要的事物上的社团更具威胁?明星社这个组织的成员在哪些方面变得不同?我说过,你们已经为我准备了十八年。我不在乎你们是否相信我是世界导师。那不重要。由于你们属于明星社这个组织,你们给予了支持和力量,完全或者部分地承认克里希那穆提是世界导师——对那些真正在追寻的人来说是完全的,对满足于自己那半个真理的人来说是部分的。

You have been preparing for eighteen years, and look how many difficulties there are in the way of your understanding, how many complications, how many trivial things. Your prejudices, your fears, your authorities, your churches new and old–all these, I maintain, are a barrier to understanding. I cannot make myself clearer than this. I do not want you to agree with me, I do not want you to follow me, I want you to understand what I am saying. “This understanding is necessary because your belief has not transformed you but only complicated you, and because you are not willing to face things as they are. You want to have your own gods–new gods instead of the old, new religions instead of the old, new forms instead of the old–all equally valueless, all barriers, all limitations, all crutches. Instead of old spiritual distinctions you have new spiritual distinctions, instead of old worships you have new worships. You are all depending for your spirituality on someone else, for your happiness on someone else, for your enlightenment on someone else; and although you have been preparing for me for eighteen years, when I say all these things are unnecessary, when I say that you must put them all away and look within yourselves for the enlightenment, for the glory, for the purification, and for the incorruptibility of the self, not one of you is willing to do it. There may be a few, but very, very few. So why have an organization?
你们已经准备了十八年,现在看看你们的领悟之路上有多少困难、多少纠结,多少琐碎之事。你们的成见、你们的恐惧、你们的权威、你们或新或旧的教会——这一切,我认为都是理解的障碍。我这样说已经再清楚不过了。我不想让你们同意我的话,不想让你们追随我,我希望你们理解我的话。这种理解是必要的,因为你们的信仰并没有转变你们,反而使你们更加复杂,而且你们又不愿意如实面对事情的真相。你们想要有自己的神——新神取代原有的神,新宗教取代原有的宗教,新形式取代原有的形式——可那一切都同样毫无价值,都是障碍,都是束缚,都是依赖。在精神方面,你们用新的特别之处取代旧有的特别之处,用新的膜拜对象取代旧的。你们的灵性,你们的幸福,你们的觉悟都依赖于别人。你们虽然已经为我准备了十八年,当我说这一切都没有必要,我说你们必须把这一切抛开,向自己内心寻求觉悟,寻求荣耀,寻求净化,寻求自己的纯净时,你们却没有一个人愿意这么做。也许有几个愿意,可是很少,很少。所以,我们为什么还要这个组织?

Why have false, hypocritical people following me, the embodiment of Truth? Please remember that I am not saying something harsh or unkind, but we have reached a situation when you must face things as they are. I said last year that I would not compromise. Very few listened to me then. This year I have made it absolutely clear. I do not know how many thousands throughout the world–members of the Order–have been preparing for me for eighteen years, and yet now they are not willing to listen unconditionally, wholly, to what I say.
为什么要让错误的、虚伪的人追随我这个真理的化身?请记得,我不是在说什么刻薄不仁的话,而是我们已经来到了一个境地,你们必须如实面对事情的真相。我去年就说我不会妥协。那时候没有几个人听进去我的话。今年我把这点彻底说清楚了。我不知道十八年来,全世界有多少人——明星社的成员——在为我准备,但是现在他们却不肯无条件地、完整地倾听我说的话。

As I said before, my purpose is to make men unconditionally free, for I maintain that the only spirituality is the incorruptibility of the self which is eternal, is the harmony between reason and love. This is the absolute, unconditioned Truth which is Life itself. I want therefore to set man free, rejoicing as the bird in the clear sky, unburdened, independent, ecstatic in that freedom . And I, for whom you have been preparing for eighteen years, now say that you must be free of all these things, free from your complications, your entanglements. For this you need not have an organization based on spiritual belief. Why have an organization for five or ten people in the world who understand, who are struggling, who have put aside all trivial things? And for the weak people, there can be no organization to help them to find the Truth, because Truth is in everyone; it is not far, it is not near; it is eternally there.
我以前说过,我意图使人无条件地自由,因为我认为,唯一的灵性是自我的纯净,那是永恒,是理性与爱的和谐。这是绝对的、无条件的真理,那就是生命本身。所以,我想使人自由,像晴空中的小鸟一样欢欣,在那自由中轻松、独立、欣喜。而我——你们已经为我准备了十八年——现在说,你们必须摆脱这一切,摆脱你们的复杂、纠缠。为此你们不需依据精神信仰建立什么组织。全世界如果有五个人或者十个人有了领悟,正在努力,并且抛开了一切琐碎的事情,那为什么还要为他们弄一个组织?对懦弱的人来说,什么组织都没有办法帮他找到真理,因为真理在每一个人心里,它不在远处也不在近处,它永远在那里。

Organizations cannot make you free. No man from outside can make you free; nor can organized worship, nor the immolation of yourselves for a cause, make you free; nor can forming yourselves into an organization, nor throwing yourselves into works, make you free. You use a typewriter to write letters, but you do not put it on an altar and worship it. But that is what you are doing when organizations become your chief concern.
组织无法使你自由。外在的他人无法给你自由;组织化的崇拜,为某个事业牺牲自己也无法使你自由;将自己纳入组织,投身于浩如烟海的经典中都无法使你自由。你用打字机写信,但是你不会把打字机供在祭坛上膜拜。然而你们现在就在这么做,你们主要关心的是组织。

How many members are there in it?” That is the first question I am asked by all newspaper reporters. “How many followers have you? By their number we shall judge whether what you say is true or false.” I do not know how many there are. I am not concerned with that. As I said, if there were even one man who had been set free, that were enough.
所有的新闻记者访问我,第一个问题都是:“你们社里有多少人?”“你有多少追随者?从这个数字我们就可判断你说的话是真是假。”我不知道社里有多少人,我不关心这件事。我说过,即使只有一个人自由了,那就够了。

Again, you have the idea that only certain people hold the key to the Kingdom of Happiness. No one holds it. No one has the authority to hold that key. That key is your own self, and in the development and the purification and in the incorruptibility of that self alone is the Kingdom of Eternity.
同样,你们有一种观念,认为幸福王国的钥匙掌握在某些人手上,其实没有人掌握着这把钥匙。没有人有权威掌握这把钥匙。那把钥匙就是你自己,就在这个自我的发展、涤清和净化之中,就是永恒的王国。

So you will see how absurd is the whole structure that you have built, looking for external help, depending on others for your comfort, for your happiness, for your strength. These can only be found within yourselves.
因此你们将会看到,你们建立的整个组织是多么荒唐——寻求外来的协助,依赖他人寻求舒适、幸福、力量。这一切只有在自己内心才找得到。

You are accustomed to being told how far you have advanced, what is your spiritual status. How childish! Who but yourself can tell you if you are beautiful or ugly within? Who but yourself can tell you if you are incorruptible? You are not serious in these things.
你们已经习惯由别人告诉你们有多大的进步和自己的灵性状态如何。真是幼稚!除了你自己,还有谁能告诉你,你内心是丑陋还是美丽?除了你自己,还有谁能告诉你,你是否纯净?你们对这些事情都不认真。

But those who really desire to understand, who are looking to find that which is eternal, without beginning and without an end, will walk together with a greater intensity, will be a danger to everything that is unessential, to unrealities, to shadows. And they will concentrate, they will become the flame, because they understand. Such a body we must create, and that is my purpose. Because of that real understanding there will be true friendship. Because of that true friendship–which you do not seem to know–there will be real cooperation on the part of each one. And this not because of authority, not because of salvation, not because of immolation for a cause, but because you really understand, and hence are capable of living in the eternal. This is a greater thing than all pleasure, than all sacrifice.
但是也有一些人真的想了解,渴望找到那无始无终的永恒,这些人,会以更大的热情走在一起,将威胁到一切无足轻重的、虚假的、阴暗的事物。他们会集中起来,变成火焰,因为他们了解。我们必须创造这样的人,这就是我的意图。由于真的了解,所以会有真正的友谊。由于有真正的友谊 ——你们似乎不懂这种东西——每一个人都会真正地合作。这种合作不是出于权威,不是出于救赎,不是为某个事业而牺牲,而是因为你真正了解,并因而活在永恒之中。这件事比一切快乐、一切牺牲都伟大。

So these are some of the reasons why, after careful consideration for two years, I have made this decision. It is not from a momentary impulse. I have not been persuaded to it by anyone. I am not persuaded in such things. For two years I have been thinking about this, slowly, carefully, patiently, and I have now decided to disband the Order, as I happen to be its Head. You can form other organizations and expect someone else. With that I am not concerned, nor with creating new cages, new decorations for those cages. My only concern is to set men absolutely, unconditionally free."
以上是我决定解散明星社的原因,我仔细考虑了两年,才做了这个决定。这不是一时冲动,也不是有谁说服我。这种事没有谁可以说服我。因为我正好是社里的首脑,两年来我一直在慢慢地、仔细地、耐心地考虑这件事,现在我决定解散明星社。你们可以成立其他的组织,并寄望于别人。我不关心那些,也不想制造新的牢笼,不想为那些牢笼点缀新的装饰品。我只关心使人类绝对地、无条件地自由。

All Rights Reserved Copyright ©1980 Krishnamurti Foundation America
美国克里希那穆提基金会版权所
Being nobody, going nowhere.
以前凡夫翻译过这段。
在哪呢?没找到才又整了一遍的
Being nobody, going nowhere.
不是凡夫译的,看错了
我在《克里希那穆提精选集》里读过,上海学林出版社去年3月出版。
第一篇就是,真理是无路可循的国度,译文差不多,只是没原文,感谢你的原文呈现。
观者,即所观;驭者,即所驭.
本帖最后由 一行蒸燕向南飞 于 2014-5-11 21:02 编辑

1# Sue 除了不要依赖群体推动个人以外,克还谈到了一些别的东西。我想,应该是他为自己还有与他类似的人所准备的东西。
1real cooperation
我们现在知道,这样的关系或组织是存在的。在遥远的古代,也多次存在这样的组织。
2the Kingdom of Eternity
and hence are capable of living in the eternal。克多次谈到了这个词,我不认为,这只是随便抒情的一笔。
3You are not serious in these things.
如果换一个词,那会是sincere,
4my purpose is to make men unconditionally free, for I maintain that the only spirituality is the incorruptibility of the self which is eternal, is the harmony between reason and love.
这可以说是对克当时的状况和取向的一写。harmony between reason and love,是一种很有趣的说法。incorruptibility 作为自我的一个属性,就是永恒的意思。self,这里翻译成自性要比自我更好,自我的话那会是ego。self应该是某种,最终能够得以实存的东西。reason and love,这两个词都不是人们通常认为的那个意思——就人通常所处的状态而言。文中的shadow显然是指的“恐惧”,love在克通常的文字里应该就是二元泯灭后的结果。reason,应该就是克不断谈及的“质疑”所依赖的功能,与“头脑”这个字眼——而这也正是大部分人流于肤浅的思索所依赖的功能——所包含的贬义所形成一种对照。spirituality应该就是等同于reason的一种成果所体现的层面,因为在克的理念中,harmony between reason and love,应当主要是reason作为一种主动行动的努力成果。
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